How to be an options trader equity sales

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High Touch is core to our business. Exactly how do you interact with the traders? The numbers in Excel update every second. PM: I crawl into bed. AM: The Japanese stock markets open. PM: Japanese stock markets close.

AM: I am one of the first people at the office. Maybe I just should give up on talking to this guy. Which traders are more approachable? PM: Arrive at home. How much have I learned so far? PM: Almost all of the traders have left the office. Future, Options, and Other Derivatives by John Hull.

Events occur in real time. PM: I eat some ramen. PM: My manager finally goes home. AM: The trading desk is almost full now. The meeting lasts about 10 minutes. AM: The alarm goes off. What are they still doing?

PM: Many of the traders have left their desks by now. Hmmm, am I working too hard? MBA knows less than me about Excel. As the firm marks its key anniversaries in Paris, London and Frankfurt, CEO James Gorman and President Colm Kelleher look back over the past 50 years. Working closely with our colleagues across Morgan Stanley, we offer efficient access to capital to help clients protect and grow their businesses and to take advantage of market opportunities. As more and more meaningful parts of our lives enter the virtual world, how do we value the assets we leave behind online? What are they worth and to whom? Across global equity derivatives markets, Morgan Stanley is a leading provider of execution services and solutions.

Our electronic trading tools include a broad suite of algorithms, smart order routing and direct market access. Our product suite encompasses equity options, equity swaps, warrants, structured notes and futures on individual securities, indices and baskets of securities. In addition, Morgan Stanley structures, underwrites and trades the full range of collateralized securities, including those backed by residential and commercial mortgages, in both the cash and derivatives markets. Morgan Stanley is a market leader in the Commodities sector, providing risk management, investor products, financing solutions and liquidity across commodities markets including oil, metals, power and natural gas. With knowledge of both the financial and physical aspects of commodities, we are execution specialists, salespeople, market analysts and originators. For more than 25 years, Morgan Stanley has led the industry and set the standard for excellence in prime brokerage. Sales executives help institutional clients to achieve their particular investment objectives, providing them not only with product expertise but also with access to all areas of the firm. Our Corporate Access team provides customized services that bring together investors and management teams, cultivating information flow and developing relationship opportunities for both corporate clients and investors. Wells Fargo Securities, LLC and Wells Fargo Prime Services, LLC are distinct entities from affiliated banks and thrifts.

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The principle is the same. The caveat would be some small firms such as Jones, Knight, etc. People often join this group expecting to learn how to identify and execute profitable trades. Your statements about intelligence and talent in sales are subjective and ridiculous at best. The likeliness of this happening is close to zero. Even client interaction will not teach you the hard finance skillls that you would need to move to the buyside, regardless of whether you want to join PE, HF or a Long Only. Could you send me a PM so that we can chat about IES?

He also represented the Equity Division on the Capital Commitment Committee, and chaired the Stock Selection Committee. Also, sales involves a lot of admin work. Offering prices is the word of the day there. Everything Red Barchetta just wrote. Have you considered applying for internships? Spreads also used to be larger so the trader made more money from flow business as well.

What was your comp at the BB you worked at and were you an associate or higher? Of course this would be for smaller funds. If you can sell you are gold. Lots of funds love milking management fees. Reading research and breaking stocks is maybe an hour or two in the morning. Think Raymond James, Morgan Keegan, etc. The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER.

How do you break in to this career? CFA and taught myself a bunch of other things, modeling etc. It could take prospects over 1 year to open with you and even then they may be paying small. Would the OP get a sniff from headhunters or folks who want a traditional background? IB for full time, as all of my IB interviews have fell through. Can anyone enlighten me what the difference is between a BB institutional sales role and an institutional equity sales role at a boutique firm? As a universal skill it is important to have and is vital to the bottom line of every organization. It really is a blend of both sales and trading.

These salespeople are usually the guys that end up getting PM roles on the buyside. Some people do make it big, because of skill or luck or both. So to the extent that you are a sales rep wanting to get paid, you have a lot more leverage at a BB. SAC Capital, and then joined Lehman Brothers where he successfully built the top institutional equity sales force on the Street, while serving on their Global Sales, Capital Commitment, Investment Policy, and US Executive Committees. As a graduate of Brown University, she is living proof that even liberal potheads from the ghettos of Rhode Island can go on to achieve. In those cases the salestrader will probably pass the order along to a trader and focus on talking to the account or focus on the trading and have a sales guy relay color etc. The trader and market maker are essentially the same thing these days. Most on this site are aspiring to achieve higher status in education and work, sales sets the bar for entry very low.

These guys either sell ideas or act as a go between stock analysts or industry experts and clients. Does anybody know if this a possibility? Very rare, but if you can do this. What are the exit opps and pay structure? From what I know it depends on a lot of factors. This is where the conflict arises. Not that different in the big picture of things. Also, since sales traders are mostly sales is it commission based opposed to a regular trader of a set salary?

Citi or Morgan Stanley or GS. So after a year I really made an effort to teach myself. The catch to all of this is there is a limited amount of information a salestrader can process at a given time. McCombs or even BHP if I tried. Flow is down, spreads have been reduced thanks to High frequency traders and risk limits have been cut. It is of course with remembering that some trades are good for both the trader and the sales trader. GPA, rank, and SAT score in Houston. Maybe you can chat more to some junior people and HFs, but Long Onlys are mostly not that interested.

People on this site want to do these gigs because they are seen as prestigious because its a relatively low risk way to MAKE LOTS OF MONEY. Could some people please elaborate on what Institutional Equity Sales and trading is? The smaller the shop the less infrastructure the better the payout you are going to see. Im currently fighting a hangover but I will post something later. MBAs younger and more hungry. Getting in is the toughest part. PM on the phone, knowing the story well and delivering the message in a compelling way.

When you get a chance, can you explain the difference between sales trader and institutional sales person? Coming into equities sales at a later point is often better because you will be a bit older and have more experience that you can draw on. Out of the three sales guys in our office, 2 have been on this desk over 10 years. But a lot of clients may have zero interest in talking to you and just go straight to the analyst if they are interested. The Best Kept Secret? Thank you for all your advice in advance. Basically anything that creates value or gets information to traders faster.

In fact, I would say starting off in equities sales can be a bit dangerous. BlackRock Fixed Income CIO team. There is plenty of demand for sales gigs, believe me, more than there is supply. They only hired a junior person under me my third year and then I could dump all the admin shit. On the commoditization front, and this is particularly true of the equities side, jobs are constantly being consumed by algorithms. The trader makes a price and if the client wants to deal the trader buys or sells the security. Many others have died before him. When speed matters and our shop has a niche of speed you are going to have some slippage when you have a sales guy relay it to a trader.

If your job requires you to be on the phone all day, what is the point of looking professional and wearing a expensive suit to work everyday? And just like you who would rather be on the road than doing research, I would rather do the research. To my knowledge a simplified explanation is that they execute large orders for mutual funds, hedge funds, and other big clients to make sure the market does not take too big of a hit. West Coasters get in at 4am? IPO sales memos, so I sounded kinda competent for 30 seconds, but much beyond this I did not know anything. Maybe move to a bank?

Finally decided to join and post. The plan would be to find some infill lots in up and coming areas of. The trader has now taken the other side of the clients trade. After a few years I got really tired of that. Will a post MBA banker who has a few years of experience credibly move into the buyside? Now without the previous ER experience? Can anyone share their experience in this field? You just have to get in and not get fired. Why would there suddenly be demand for more fixed income sales people? MM and the sales guys here all make healthy salaries and their bonuses are somewhat tied to what the office brings in as a whole.

Tell me something worth knowing. Sales traders handle the trades for the institutional sales force. Sales traders get paid on commissions so the overall risk profile is lower. This risk could be split second risk where the traders buys the security back from the market immediately or this could be risk run over hours or days depending on liquidity, market etc. You will learn about market mechanics, reporting, compliance, and sales. Global Research Department, breaking new ground on integrating research from all regions around the globe.

You may establish a good network with fund managers but this does not mean they will want to hire you. Research guys can go into sales and some into trading. You definitely are not just an order taker. Another is if you can make an excel sheet that helps in some form during the day. Of course those two years sucked because I was covering clients full on and also doing all the support work that the junior analyst has to do including all the mundane admin shit, so my first two years I came to the office by 6am and left at maybe 10pm. You cant be working 15 orders and talking to 10 accounts about various things and relaying info at the same time its simply not possible. Dismissing it as a career for idiots is an utterly stupid attitude in itself. Have you looked at the backgrounds of equity sales people?

Are the Citi NYSE traders strictly dealing with the orders from retail investors? If you are someone who likes geographic mobility this is also tough because clients are specific to your location, if you move from NY to HK. The PMs I work with would rather just talk to the analyst that the sales guy talks to. Great research will make PMs pay for the reports. Technology Financial Model: Can someone send me one? After a year I felt like I still knew nothing. Spec residential development Im interested in learning the processes behind residential development as a way to invest on the side with a few of my colleagues. Those desks are really keen on trying you out first, see if they get along with you. It would be great if you could shed some light on that. The job is more or less the same, but in a larger firm, you are going to have better clients, throwing more dollars, to talk to better analysts, and get better information.

PE, I did one year in a very specialized role that focused too much on one sector and one particular type of company within that. Prop trader: This is what many people think of what a trader does. Equities and equity derivs are just more fun to me. Almost everyone is on Wall Street at least in part for the prestige. HFoF directly as an analyst. Depending on how many clients they have they will split their time between hitting up their clients and executing the trades. What tends to happen in a smaller shop is they are willing to willing to pay a much higher payout and since sales traders are relationship based they can just jump to another shop where they get a better payout and bring their clients. Is it better to join a Bulge Bracket or a smaller research firm with an interesting niche? The existing client base is normally pretty much covered, the best way to get clients when you first join is to pick up those clients of someone more senior who quit.

While the roles are merging at many banks the sales traders are not the same thing as traders. Getting into equities sales a the major BBs is usually done through internships. Their is thus a fine balance between the commissions generated by the sales trader and the loss of money on trading books of the trader. People seem to forget this, but EVERYONE is a salesperson. The info I have on comp is fairly hazy and I want to get some firm numbers. They have offices in Vegas and Hong Kong. There was the occasional dinner and drinks after work, but not that often really. It is worth remembering that some of the clients will be hedge funds who are actively trying to exploit market mispricings.

Its not very efficient. PE select for at the junior level. Obviously, it is cyclical as well to some degree. Any advice would be great. Would appreciate feedback, thanks in advance. If that was so, you would see a lot more doctors, academics, NGO types here. Usually an equities sales desk has only one entry level analyst, maybe two if it is a very large desk. Right now because I am the junior guy on the desk I am in charge of the admin stuff and booking the trips, logistics. At most BBs you are also not allowed to do this stuff remotely due to compliance reasons, so you are stuck there.

What time do they leave? Much less of a fit risk than some random person who may have all the technical expertise. What should I know? You either do business or you get cut from the list, period. Go in FID sales. Any insight as to what questions they may ask would be appreciated! Assistant at a MM bank and really enjoy being on the trading floor.

Bonus could be a tad less, maybe 25. PE is definitely NOT a common thing to do from equities sales. Ravenous may have some better insight on this. VP if I had stayed one more year, but I quit to do sth else. BB, I would expect your experience to be the former. They can also go into funds. The barrier to entry is lower, and you have less attractive exit opps. Sorry for the untimely reply, my undergrad was in journalism.

Would really appreciate the info. Interview while having just started a new job I have just started a new job, and I got asked for an interview for a nice job I applied before I accepted this offer. What was your undergrad degree in? People talk about the global settlement, but the fact is that management of any company with a decent market cap gives more air time and better color to bulge bracket banks than they do to tiddly wink brokerage firms. Citi, and the Citi traders on the NYSE floor. But then again most people in the FoF world are not angling for such jobs. So long story short, that makes your job selling easier that information and trying to impress clients. This can take up hours of your day on a regular basis.

This seems kind of weird to me. Sales people are probably way overpaid for what they do. Also, I have had a legal internship at a federal courthouse. Traders can also work on the buy side in various capacities. Overall, I would not worry about not having a finance background. Prop traders were essentially a hedge fund operating within the bank. The places you are talking about are not pure boutique shops so you may have the possibility of actually getting some accounts to cover from early on. Would you be able to give some more color on the junior level and how you foresee the future of the industry? The industry is mature and shrinking with established relationships. Could you comment on the compensation for Institutional Equity Sales reps from 1st year to SVP level? We had 1 admin for 20 people.

Its a ton of work and it doesnt happen overnight. Volcker rule changes these roles have all but disappeared and this is no longer a function that you will do at a bank. Janet, and the luscious locks of white hair which crowned her lovely Jewish face. Even though I did not post the topic, I would like to thank you for your feedback. Good traders will make clients come back with more orders. BUT the trader gets paid on the profitability of his book and so he has no incentive to take on a losing trade.

RIP Janet Yellen Today, we lost our dearest friend, Janet Yellen. With that comes a trade off which i will explain in a moment. Was just wondering if individuals on here with experience in the industry could shed some light on why it seems to me there is not high demand for this job? At the most senior levels bankers, private equity partners, lawyers, accountants etc. What are the typical hours, pay, etc compared to the equity research arm? Keep in mind that this is a flow based business. All in all it is not a bad job, but just go in eyes wide open.

Great thread so far. Which job would most likely offer better experience and exit options towards a research analyst position at a hedge fund? In terms of hours, yes, it is true there is usually no weekend work. OTC block flow or some other particular niche. You have the prop traders and market makers as well. The client will giving giving orders and instructions and the salestrader is acting as an agent executing for the customer.

Does he just relay the messages from the research and PM to the sell side trader? Was it in a business field? Or you could get a job on a desk by applying to a boutique firm with a less rigid recruiting structure and if you do well could transfer to a bulge bracket later. Focus on reality and you will enjoy your life much more. As such you will be paid less at bigger places but you will see more early in the career. Also, and this is at least as important as previous dynamic, larger firms get paid. There are some smaller firms who actually have some type of advantage and niche. How hard is it to break into investment banking from McCombs?

The sales traders ARE the traders. MBA experience if I want to switch over to buy side research through a top MBA program if I decide I like picking stocks rather than selling ideas? What a salestrader also is doing is trading the order for the client as well. The number of inept and not smart people I find at top PE shops is astounding. It sounds like your main weakness is a lack of relevant experience. ECM about the book. Hope this helps clear things up. Let fling the monkey shit.

The fact that there are people who take the Patrick Bateman character seriously and try to apply it to their lives is unreal. Note: The _overall_ most talented people I know are all senior sales executives at Fortune 500 software companies. If you look at PWM at BB, the people are significantly less talented than trading, Asset Management, and banking folks. Send me a msg if you have any questions. The market for fixed income sales reps is mature. You can talk your way into it. Deal flow, well, good clients will get a higher allocation than shit clients. Best way to break in is to get recruited from college after doing internships at the bank.

The backgrounds of most of these people are pretty much the same type of people who become Real Estate agents and insurance agents. Is it possible to lateral from Credit Risk SA to IB for FT? Also I would appreciate if someone could elaborate on what Institutional Equities Sales is? Also, hiring junior analysts on sales desks is a lot less frequent than for IBD. Prop traders trade entirely with the banks capital and do not typically interact with other areas of the business unless to help a desk out of a position or to make money off of it. You need to enjoy to be on the phone and you need to enjoy going to meetings where your role is just a chaperone. What exactly is there role? Any tips on how to best prepare? So a sales trader wants to do as many trades as possible.

Well, some roadshow would be pleasant of course but constantly doing it is not exactly my type. In certain cases that is true. Just my point of view. However, if you think sales is what you enjoy, then definitely go for it. Ivy League school and a top 30 school but went into debt to do it. Guys are paying not because you are a good salesman but because they more or less have to pay the big boys. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. Asset Management at another shop. Thanks so much for this post. Another thing that sometimes people get kinda wrong is the idea that you will take clients out a lot and it will be one big party every night. If you are ready to burn off belly fat and make lifestyle changes that will help you maintain a healthy weight, the belly fat diet plan can help.

Just curious Gini, where did you end up moving in your career after Institutional Sales? As far as prospecting for new accounts and building relationships a salestrader does all that just like a sales guy would. Yes, I also made some good friends among my clients, but there were a lot of lunches and coffees that were totally not enjoyable. If you are starting up without an edge, you might struggle. And I mean really mundane stuff. You should have seen the look of complete soullessness in this dude. It all depends on what you want.

In general, sales does not attract the best and the brightest. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males. There is a healthy debate as to what constitutes out and out prop trading and the positions taken by a market maker. Note how almost all of this is staying within finance. Does it happen a lot? Why would an institutional money manager choose to do business with your firm instead of say Morgan Stanley?

As for your comment about people on WSO excluding sales as a good way of making living, what the fuck do you think investment banking is about? Citi Sophomore Leadership Private Bank Superday Hi! But if you have a choice, do equities reserch or IBD first and then move into sales later. What should I major in, in. My job is an institutional equity salesman. There is probably not much value add you can provide, so it makes your job very difficult. PE types who have done the drill. They make money by getting commissions based on the notional value of orders they receive. You bring in revenue or are seen to be doing so and get a cut.

My gut is that BC I work for a firm that no one knows it will be tough to get clients. But if you are just starting out in finance, I would not pick sales. This summer I have an internship with a BB and will be working in their Institutional Equity Sales. In fact there is zero relationship, most BBs have a very complicated attribution system, so your commissions are kinda meaningless at major BBs. Think about investment bankers. What is the point of wearing a suit for a job that requires you to be on the phone only? The first paragraph of your post is pretty applicable to most of finance, especially on the sell side. There are countless doctors, lawyers, and financiers who are dreadfully unhappy in their jobs. The reps at some of those firms can make coin if they have deep relationships with a good set of clients and are known to be trustworthy in executions.

The biggest question I have is now the role of the buyside trader. In other words, mobility is TOUGH, especially after a few years. Sales people manage idea flow. So if you are good at it, you will have no problems making money and having lots of career opportunities. They could actually argue they may have a better look into the industry because they are on the ground in those physical locations. GPA from my undergrad and graduate program with high marks in stats. Hi guys, I recently got an offer for Credit Risk for next summer at a top BB. Would an MD let a Masters student come in one or two days a week to volunteer? Also, good salespeople with a solid track record of money making ideas can become portfolio managers on the buyside.

ABSOLUTELY no prop positions involved. CuriousCharacter: This segment of the population that you mention are the people that would actually go into debt just to be preftigious. There were ups and downs on bonus due to market performance and general performance of the firm. You may often feel like a glorified secretary rather than a finance professional. Equity sales is not the only one. Sorry for not giving feedbacks as good as the others, but good luck! Entry level analyst on an IES desk coming up soon. Not really something one gets at previous experience, so maybe as a junior.

BB bank trading desk as a sales assistant, you will get paid a salary and can work your way up. Also, this part of the job is a lot less fun than you think, at least for me it was. Maybe this will put it into prospective for you. While keeping this discussion in the context of the financial services, even outside of banking, every buy side fund manager had to sell his or her ideas to their initial investors in order to get started at one point. Like scheduling meetings for your clients. Most prop traders have long gravitated towards hedge funds, which are less restricted on what they can pay their employees. This is the biggest pay packet of any front office investment banking job. What is life really like working in trading at Morgan Stanley? Once, it was possible for star traders to haul in millions as their performance was directly tied to their compensation. Heather Cameron Watt, an associate in equity trading, gives us an insight.

The first thing to say about pay in sales and trading roles within investment banking is that since the financial crisis, the glory days are over.